Two There Are: The Church, the State and the Dangers of Radical Secularism

By Andrew M. Greenwell, Esq.
2/29/2012
Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)

In Christianity, the State is de-divinized, the Church is de-politicized

Both Church and State have public voices; both sing a song. The Catholic, both a citizen and a member of Christ's faithful, hears both songs and both voices, for he or she knows there are two. But like St. Thomas More's last words as he approached the scaffold and imminent death, the Catholic is "the King's good servant, but God's first." One song, one voice in particular, the voice of God, the vox Domini Iesu Christi, holds him in absolute thrall.

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CORPUS CHRISTI, TX (Catholic Online) - "Duo sunt," said the 5th century Pope Gelasius I in a famous letter to Emperor Anastasius, "quibus principaliter mundus hic regitur." "Two there are by which this world is ruled." Pope Gelasius I merely reformulates what is the teaching of our Lord, and which is part of reality, of what is, in the political world for those who bask in the benefit of Revelation. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Matt. 22:21) Since Christ came into this world, the Christian knows that there are two public songs, and not just one, in the world.

The Catholic accepts the duo sunt as part of social reality. There is therefore in the Catholic mind, both Church and State, and a natural and necessary separation of Church and State. But this separation of Church and State does not imply subordination of Church to State. Quite the contrary, the State and the Church are coordinate powers each with its proper sphere.

But in matters of faith and of morals, the Church is superior. In telling us about truth and about the good, the State is incompetent. In Christianity, the State is de-divinized, the Church is de-politicized. The State is not in possession of spiritual power. The Church as Church is not in possession of political power. These powers are to work together for the common good. Duo sunt.

Both Church and State have public voices; both sing a song. The Catholic, both a citizen and a member of Christ's faithful, hears both songs and both voices, for he or she knows there are two. But like St. Thomas More's last words as he approached the scaffold and imminent death, the Catholic is "the King's good servant, but God's first."

One song, one voice in particular, the voice of God, the vox Domini Iesu Christi, holds him in absolute thrall. He hears the song of his Master, whose yoke is easy, whose burden is light, and he hears the song of Caesar, and of the two songs he recognizes the voice of the Lord as the most lasting, the most beautiful, the most true. (Matt. 11:30)

When push comes to shove-and there is progressively more shoving and less pushing as the Western democracies in their re-creation of society in man's own image jettison their Christian capital as if but flotsam or jetsam-the Catholic will say with St. Peter, "We must obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29). The Catholic insists there are two voices, but also that there is one more beautiful and lasting than the other-for he hears them both and is able to distinguish them and he knows which is more beautiful-duo sunt.

Like the singing Jewish captive by the rivers of Babylon, the Catholic would rather his right hand wither, and his tongue cleave to the roof of his mouth, than forget the words to his song, the song of the sounds of heavenly Zion, duo sunt. (Cf. Ps. 137 (136):5-6) Duo sunt, duo sunt, duo sunt is the leitmotif of his song, a political and religious song which is not monophonic, but diaphonic. His political song has two voices which, if there is to be proper order, must try to sing in harmony.

Modernly, the Catholic is pressed hard between two groups that command center stage, and which have in their hands either power or violence (and there is but a thin line between the two). These two groups cry not duo sunt, but unus est, "one there is." These are the secularists and the Islamists, and they seem to divide the world between them.

For secularists, the State is all there is; there is no spiritual power. In their zeal for power, the dogmatic secularists cry out like the high priests did to Pontius Pilate: "We have no king but Caesar." (John 19:15) The modern secular State is the Hobbesian "mortal God," and there is no immortal God which competes for obeisance, for secularism subscribes to the Nietzschean view that the immortal God-the God of Jacob, Isaac, and Joseph-is dead. For them, God is dead.

Since for the modern secular State God is dead and sings no more, it, and it alone, is the final reality: unus est. It calls itself liberal, but it is not, since it can only hear one voice: its own, and so it closes itself off in a prison.

The secularist knows no reality outside of what he makes for himself. Man is one dimensional, and he answers neither to God nor to any fixed nature. For the secularist, there is no such thing as an objective reality, one pre-existing him, one founded on nature or nature's God, one which must be given public voice. But against the voice of the secularist who exclaims unus est, the Church insists in both the reality of the natural law and in the ...

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Irl Gladfelter
1 year ago
DLL: Change is not necessarily bad. What I am afraid of is anyone who runs their political campaign on making fundamental change without going into detail about what, precisely, is that change. Do not beware of change, per-se. Beware of politicians who try to sell the people "a pig in a poke" by saying, "Change is coming," without telling us precisely what the change is that he or she is promising to bring. As far as the Church being at odds with the world, that is nothing new. The secular world has been opposed to the Church from the very beginning, sometimes violently. In the 2nd century, Tertullian wrote: "The blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church," Let us never give in to secularism.
DLL
1 year ago
Obamaism?????,Secular Humanism? The Future?... The executive office of government shall reign supreme. No one should seriously object to executive orders mandates or proclamations. Proposals from the executive office must be more than just considered they must be turned into law and obeyed. These orders and proposals need not be read to be approved of for mandate. Anything the right party of the right kind of people with the proper and politically correct viewpoint approves of,is correct for all mandates and laws. Assisted suicide is a necessity as is abortion to help control the futile plight of the elderly and of the excessive procreation of newborn,to reduce all medical costs and and to create affordable healthcare for all. Contraceptives for men and women help to prevent sexual accidents and will be free without copayment and preferably without any financial charges. Hopefully sex toys will eventually become more accepted than normal intercoarse for sexual pleasure. The general public are not real thinkers,they are chemical thinkers,subhuman,to be taxed heavily so that government expenses can be met without inconvienience reducing the annual budget,so the taxpayer incurs all expenses. Taxpayers are not really a viable entity with so called human rights or any real true humanity. Any party that opposes the one true political party is to be treated as a none entity,as agenda politics are the basis for all political action,reaction and mandate proclamations. Religion is really ridiculous especially Christian activity in the public arena? There really is no such thing as religious freedom or religion. It is a myth. Muslim people must be highly respected and even feared until,this group of people can become controlled to be made doscile,peaceful and not so devoted to religious fervors that make them so quick to become violent and uncontrolable. Eventually they can be controled and manipulated like all Christians to obey all mandates,taxes,fines and laws. All are to eventually sumit and obey proper political thought and to serve the proper politically correct platform,that really appove all politically approved of mandates. State government and federal government need not agree in principal or in constitution,so all moral laws and traditions can be controlled or changed at the whim to be what the individual states mandate and believe appropriate to satisfy those that contribute the most money to promote their individual agendas. A lie is the truth and the truth can be a lie it,is all perfectly correct as to influence popular opinion so that new agendas that are politically correct,can seem to be the best ones to suit the so called needs of the population as a whole. Change is difficult but can be nurtured to be accepted and mandated,if all politically proper proposals are inacted and acted upon immediately to be signed into law as unread and immediately,absolutely,urgent. Marriage is a social failure so the states can regulate what the terms of marriage are to suit agenda and cult preferences,so slowly as every kind of marriage will be mostly a failed one,the government will necessarily become family as traditionally accepted norms of yesteryear will be decried inappropriate. Women will be encouraged one day to accept artificial insemination as opposed as so called male, female sexual relations so after birth the state operated child care centers will bring up all children so that all women can have the right to continue with her career choices. Women that choose to accept to be pregnant for artificial purposes can receive a stipend from local officials,as she must be proven to be as healthy,as embryonic implantation will become the normal way to become pregnant,replacing the older convential form called sexual intercourse. Any baby born as defective will be terminated when this determination is medically agreed upon. All people who live a full lifetime must remain intact and functional units to be considered as optimal. Elderly people will be "Patriots of Honor" if they volunteer to be euthanised. Assisted suicide will be available as the one true freedom for all but the elite. On and on this goes as secular humanism,Obamaism or what ever,if these trends continue CHANGE is Not Good! Anyone who runs their political campaign on making fundamental CHANGE! BEWARE!
Andy Holland
1 year ago
Joseph's argument is extremely clear and cogent. It is not hatred to admonish and even to excommunicate; it is always an act of love if the purpose is love and gentleness and examples are ancient and extant. It was refreshing to hear that Joseph Biden was on the outs by going against the health care birth control nonsense at the White House. When the line in the sand is drawn by the Church, even politicians on the other side of the spectrum will have more guidance to take a firm stand and save not only their souls, but others around them.
Joseph
1 year ago
The secular progressive juggernaut has no intention of stopping and we would do well to combine the best of post Vatican II with the best of pre Vatican II, and do it as quickly as possible. We urgently need a more robust and measured balance between Love and Mercy and Justice and Damnation. We must seek to reason and persuade, yes, but we are also called upon - without self-righteousness - to condemn actions and attitudes that fly in the face of the moral law as expressed in Holy Scripture, Tradition and the Natural Law. The State as State has nothing but contempt for us. Let us be quite clear about this. So though we must never close down our dialogue with the State and its forces, we are also morally obliged to speak out, at times with loving bluntness, and condemn before God and man the godless and presumptuous course currently being pursued by the USA and Europe. A pastoral strategy which does not include recourse to open, honest, firm condemnation, which does not reassert the terrible reality of sin and hell (regardless of the chorus of laughter arising from the lips of the liberal elites) is a pastoral strategy that is doomed to failure. We simply must, as a matter of the greatest urgency, blend the best of the pre Vatican II Church Militant with the best of the post Vatican II Church if we are to do justice to our beliefs and our duty of obedience and evangelisation before God.
As God has made abundantly clear to us: "If I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you will have saved your life." (Ezekiel 3: 18-20).
abey
1 year ago
But for the Catholic there can be only one, for all that is created is off GOD, even though all that man does is not to God, an ever increasing failure of his memory through Pride, to radical secularizations, again to the lusts & desires of the flesh in the order of Paganism where demons are called as gods & Atheism where demons stay hidden , starving the Spirit of its needs so as to disconnect the spirit from its source, which source is GOD, leaving the body, by the soul, to its lusts & desires back to its origin, from dust it is & to dust it returns, making the soul void of the Spirit to become a lost soul, open to demons, in their world. In short, this is where today's secularism lead to.

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